8 out of 8 people found this review helpful.
Next-Gen Receiver is a hit!
Date of Review: Dec 16, 2007
The Bottom Line: If you are serious about movies, and want to hear everything that the producers hear, then get it. But it will overhaul your wallet.
Introduction:
I devoted a lot of time to learning all I could about the next generation of audio receivers on the marketplace. A "next generation" surround processor is defined as one that can decode the new Dolby True-HD, and DTS Master Audio sound formats. All told, I probably spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 hours of research before I decided to upgrade my surround sound processor.
I previously had a 5.1 channel Sony ES, 100w x 5ch. It worked great for years until I got a Sony Playstation 3. I then had the ability to watch Blu-rays, but not the ability to take full advantage of the new audio formats that Blu-ray had to offer: Dolby True-HD, DTS Master Audio, and uncompressed PCM. Normal "Dolby Digital" receivers have Toslink, or coaxial digital inputs for 5.1 sound. These inputs do not have the bandwidth to accept the new formats of audio. Dolby digital has a maximum bit rate of 640kbps, but only really transmits at about 440kbps in normal movies. Compare this to a theoretical maximum of 18Mbps on an HDMI cable with uncompressed PCM! Wow! 640Kb vs 18Mb? I had to have it! But to get that signal, you have to use HDMI equipment. I cant stand watching a movie and knowing that it could sound better, if I only wasn't so cheap.
The hunt is on. I checked out the Onkyo, Sony, Yamaha, and finally the Denon. All of these companies make great products, it really takes some personal searching to decide which unit is best for you based on the available features and your budget. Here is why I chose the Denon AVR-2808ci:
1 – It allowed native decoding of Dolby True-HD, and DTS Master Audio.
2 – It has "Auto EQ" abilities to calibrate your theater for you.
3 – In my opinion, Denon's sound is superior to the competition.
4 – I could get an unreal deal. $599, new from Denon. Shipped.
In the box:
HEAVY box, full of goodies! It had a nice touch screen remote, plus the calibration Audisey microphone. The manual is easy enough, but it is recommended that you read it before getting started. Set up took me about 9 hours from start to finish. This may seem extreme, but to get everything exactly working correctly takes some time. Plus trial and error from learning how these formats are transferred. If you have a setting wrong, you may be listing to no better than DVD quality sound! It was worth the time to make sure I had it set up correctly. The industry makes it SO CONFUSING to understand all of these new formats, and how to set them up correctly. I blame them, not Denon. It also has a 2nd remote for controlling a second (or third) room. I thought this was silly because it requires a direct line of sight to the receiver, which would not be available from a 2nd room! Oh well.
Set Up-
I have the Denon connected to my:
Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD Player (with Bitstream out)
Playstation 3 (with PCM out)
Comcast HD Cable (Dolby Digital)
Xbox 360 (Dolby Digital)
Harmony Remote Controls everything but the PS3
Audisey Multi-EX is AWESOME! WORKS LIKE A CHAMP, takes about 10 mins to complete and the results were perfect! Plus it gives you the option to manually change the Equalizer on each of the 7 channels, plus set the crossover! Total control! It recognized all of my speakers, their distance, size, and crossover without issue.
IMPORTANT INFO:
Here is what took me so long to understand. Read it carefully, and don't listen to the other misinformation on the web. A lot of people are confused about the sound output settings… If you want the Denon to do the audio decoding, you MUST have a player that can output "BITSTREAM" Dolby True-HD, and DTS Master Audio. Most all new players internally decode the Dolby True-HD, and DTS Master Audio and send them out as processed PCM audio. The little light on your Denon will not light up "Dolby True-HD or DTS Master Audio" unless you are connected to a source that can output BITSTREAM audio. I personally was on a quest to have my new receiver light up "Dolby True-HD", so I bought the Toshiba HD-A35 that has the bitstream ability.
The Sony Playstation 3 DOES NOT have the ability to bitstream out Dolby True-HD, and DTS Master Audio. It does have a "bitstream" setting, but this is only to "bitstream" the original Dolby Digital 640kb signal. If you have a PS3 you want to select "PCM". With the PCM setting, the players internal decoded translates the Dolby True-HD signal to an uncompressed PCM signal.
PCM is the same signal, bit for bit, that Hollywood uses to mix their movies. Basically think of Dolby True-HD, and DTS Master Audio as "ZIP Files". When they are decoded, they become Uncompressed PCM. So does it matter if the decoding is done on the player, or the receiver? Tough call… Either way they get the same PCM signal in the end. They both sound great to my ears! I kind of like the fact that the Denon is doing the heavy lifting. I would assume Denon would use higher quality components than Toshiba/Sony.
Movie Playback:
Bluray: I did a lot of comparisons of 5th Element. This disk has the uncompressed PCM track actually on the disk itself. It takes an amazing 15GB of disk space for the audio track alone. The difference between the original Dolby Digital track, and the uncompressed PCM was stark. The sound stage really cleared up a lot, and fine details could be made out. It was reassuring to know that all of my speakers were getting the best possible source. I switched back and forth to compare the audio, and was very pleased by what my ears were telling me. Its hard to believe that movie audio can STILL be improved on!
HD-DVD: I watched 300 on HD-DVD and I was in heaven! My "True-HD" indicator on the receiver light up, and I knew I was in for a treat! Again, I switched back in forth (over and over and over) and compared old a new sound formats. The presense of the bass, and highs were so much more pronounced. A true marvel.
Personal Note on the "Format War": Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray look and sound fantastic. One is not better than the other. They are both great. I hate fanboys who trash one or the other, they are delusional. End of story.
Xbox 360 Playback: The extra 2 channels in the back (7.1) were a nice touch. While playing Halo 3 I can now hear exactly where I am being shot from! Priceless!
My Test Setup:
Definitive Technology BP-10B's in the front
Definitive Technology Center (unknown model)
Definitive Technology BPX Rears x 3
Bob Carver Sunfire True Sub (2700 watts!)
Toshiba HD-A35
Playstation 3
Final Notes:
With a retail value of $1199, this puppy is not cheap. It does cost more than other receivers in the market with the same feature set. This is because Denon has superior sound quality, in my opinion. It is a bit of a chore to set up, probably harder than its competition, but you get out what you put into it. I would only really recommend making the jump to a next generation receiver if you are really into audio. For most everyone, I am sure Dolby Digital is fine. It is not as big of a difference as say, between standard definition TV and HDTV. But there is a noted difference, and if you want to hear everything the director intended, you got to get it!
